---
title: "Best LED Headlight Bulbs for Your Ram 1500"
canonical: "https://drivegearhub.com/best-led-headlight-bulbs-for-ram-1500/"
author: "Ethan Vance"
published: "2026-10-29T03:00:00+00:00"
modified: "2026-09-25T13:26:57+00:00"
language: "en-US"
site: "Drive Gear Hub"
description: "The best best led headlight bulbs for ram 1500 overall is the for RAM 1500/2500/3500 20092025 High Low set: matched 9005 high beam and H11 low beam bulbs…"
categories: "Car Exterior Accessories"
attribution: "Drive Gear Hub (https://drivegearhub.com/)"
---

# Best LED Headlight Bulbs for Your Ram 1500

The best **best led headlight bulbs for ram 1500** overall is the for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low set: matched 9005 high beam and H11 low beam bulbs that cover the widest year range here, from 2009 right through 2025. If you own a truck in that window and want one order that fits, start there.

 

Want the brightest output for long night highway miles instead? The SEALIGHT 9005/HB3 H11/H8/H9 combo claims 1200% over stock halogen, as long as you're fine with 6500K cool white and a bit more re-aiming.

 

*As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.*

 

This guide covers the socket codes, fitment traps and heat questions that decide whether a set lasts more than a year, plus the buyers who should skip LED swaps entirely.

 

One honesty note: everything below comes from current Amazon product data, published specs and each set's owner track record. We didn't install these bulbs on a truck ourselves, and we won't pretend otherwise.

 

## Quick Answer: The Best Led Headlight Bulbs for Ram 1500

 

The for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low set takes the top spot because it covers both beam positions across the widest year range on this list.

 

- **[for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GMQK6YRW?tag=drivegearhub-20)** (Best Overall for Full Year-Range Fitment): Matched 9005 and H11 bulbs for 2009-2025 trucks.
- **[SEALIGHT 9005/HB3 H11/H8/H9 Light Bulb Combo](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GWCZPH36?tag=drivegearhub-20)** (Best Brightness for Long Highway Drives): Highest published output claim here at 1200% over stock.
- **[Upgrade Hi/Lo Bulbs Kit Fit 2009-2025](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GZV3VVBZ?tag=drivegearhub-20)** (Best Full High and Low Beam Kit): One box covers both beam positions.
- **[Lights Bulb compatible Dodge Ram 1500](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G1YDB4QR?tag=drivegearhub-20)** (Best Owner-Rated Fit and Finish): 4.8/5 reported average, the highest here.
- **[Termitor Upgraded H11 9005 LED Bulbs](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H6VYMZK8?tag=drivegearhub-20)** (Best Waterproofing for Wet and Salty Climates): IP68 sealing and an 80,000+ hour lifespan claim.

 

Thinking about a projector retrofit or a lease-return truck instead? Jump to Who Should NOT Buy below before you spend anything.

 

## Comparison Table

 

Here's the lineup at a glance: photo, product, who it's built for, and our /10 score.

 

| Photo | Product | Best for | Score | Buy |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
|  | for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low | Full 2009-2025 RAM fitment | 9.2/10 | Check price → |
|  | SEALIGHT 9005/HB3 H11/H8/H9 Light Bulb Combo | Brightest highway driving combo | 9.0/10 | Check price → |
|  | Upgrade Hi/Lo Bulbs Kit Fit 2009-2025 | Complete high and low kit | 8.6/10 | Check price → |
|  | Lights Bulb compatible Dodge Ram 1500 | Highest owner-rated fitment | 8.9/10 | Check price → |
|  | Termitor Upgraded H11 9005 LED Bulbs | Wet-weather waterproofing | 8.8/10 | Check price → |

*Scroll sideways on small screens to see every column.*

 

## for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low: Best Overall for Full Year-Range Fitment

#1[![for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71nXQIMv0nL._AC_UL320_.jpg)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GMQK6YRW?tag=drivegearhub-20)[for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GMQK6YRW?tag=drivegearhub-20)for2009-2025 RAM coverage**9.2**OUT OF 10Brightness9.1Beam Quality9.3Ease of Install9.0Owner Verdict9.4**This is the pick that covers the widest spread of RAM trucks here.** The set pairs 9005 high beam bulbs with H11 low beams for 2009 through 2025 RAM 1500, 2500 and 3500 models, so you’re not guessing at socket codes at the counter. Manufacturer specs list a 6500K white output built to sit close to the factory halogen filament position.High and low beam use different sockets on most of these trucks, which is exactly where single-bulb orders go wrong. Buying both in one box removes that step. Verified buyer feedback repeatedly mentions a straight swap with no cutting or adapters, and the 4.2/5 reported rating comes from a large enough review base to be useful rather than noise.**Flaws but not dealbreakers.** That 4.2 average trails the SEALIGHT and Lights Bulb sets below, and some owner reports mention the collar needing a firm, square push before the bulb seats fully. Trucks with sealed dust covers may need the cap trimmed or replaced for clearance.Need the full high-and-low package in one box? The [Upgrade Hi/Lo Bulbs Kit](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GZV3VVBZ?tag=drivegearhub-20) further down bundles both beam positions the same way.⚠**Fitment:** Confirm your truck’s build year and factory socket pair before ordering, since RAM changed housing designs across the 2009-2025 span.Pros

- ✓9005 high beam and H11 low beam in one order, so no second trip.
- ✓Coverage spans 2009 through 2025 RAM 1500, 2500 and 3500.
- ✓6500K white output sits close to the stock filament position.
- ✓Reported 4.2/5 rating across a large buyer base.

Cons

- ✕4.2/5 trails the SEALIGHT and Lights Bulb sets on this list.
- ✕Some owners report the collar needs a firm push to seat fully.
- ✕Sealed dust covers may need trimming for clearance.

Sockets9005 + H11Colour Temp6500K whiteFit Years2009-2025Reported Rating4.2 / 5**Best for:** RAM owners in the widest year range who want high and low beams sorted in a single order.[Check current price on Amazon →](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GMQK6YRW?tag=drivegearhub-20)

## SEALIGHT 9005/HB3 H11/H8/H9 Light Bulb Combo: Best Brightness for Long Highway Drives

#2[![SEALIGHT 9005/HB3 H11/H8/H9 Light Bulb Combo](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/711IYlBg-SL._AC_UL320_.jpg)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GWCZPH36?tag=drivegearhub-20)[SEALIGHT 9005/HB3 H11/H8/H9 Light Bulb Combo](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GWCZPH36?tag=drivegearhub-20)SEALIGHT1200% output claim**9.0**OUT OF 10Brightness9.6Beam Quality9.0Ease of Install9.4Owner Verdict8.8**If you drive dark two-lane highways at night, this is the set to shortlist.** SEALIGHT rates the combo at 1200% brighter than stock halogen, at 6500K cool white, in a four-pack that covers 9005/HB3 and H11/H8/H9 sockets. That combination is why it holds a reported 4.5/5 across a big review base.The “1:1 real design” claim matters more than it sounds. It means the LED chip array sits where the original halogen filament sat, which is what keeps light inside the reflector’s intended pattern instead of scattering it into oncoming lanes. Owners also report the 3-minute plug-and-play install holding up, with no adapter harness needed on most trucks.**Flaws but not dealbreakers.** Cool white light at this output is unforgiving in fog and heavy snow, where a warmer 3000K-4000K bulb cuts through better. A handful of owners also note that very bright LEDs can reveal how much a faded or clouded factory housing was already limiting them.Need a set with a stronger waterproofing rating for salted winter roads? The [Termitor Upgraded H11 9005 LED Bulbs](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H6VYMZK8?tag=drivegearhub-20) further down carries an IP68 seal.⚠**Aiming:** Re-aim both housings after install. Brighter output aimed high will dazzle other drivers and can fail a state inspection.Pros

- ✓1200% brightness claim over stock halogen, the highest here.
- ✓1:1 filament-matched design keeps the beam inside the reflector.
- ✓Four-pack covers both 9005 and H11 socket families.
- ✓Plug-and-play install reported at around three minutes.

Cons

- ✕6500K cool white is the wrong choice for fog and heavy snow.
- ✕Very bright output can expose faded factory housings.
- ✕Needs re-aiming after install to stay road-legal.

Sockets9005 + H11Colour Temp6500K cool whitePack Size4 bulbsReported Rating4.5 / 5**Best for:** Night-shift commuters and long-haul drivers who want maximum usable light on unlit roads.[Check current price on Amazon →](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GWCZPH36?tag=drivegearhub-20)

## Upgrade Hi/Lo Bulbs Kit Fit 2009-2025: Best Full High and Low Beam Kit

#3[![Upgrade Hi/Lo Bulbs Kit Fit 2009-2025](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71YEzChOnvL._AC_UL320_.jpg)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GZV3VVBZ?tag=drivegearhub-20)[Upgrade Hi/Lo Bulbs Kit Fit 2009-2025](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GZV3VVBZ?tag=drivegearhub-20)UpgradeComplete hi/lo kit**8.6**OUT OF 10Brightness8.5Beam Quality8.6Ease of Install8.7Owner Verdict8.6**The appeal here is simple: one kit, both beam positions, no mixing and matching.** This set is built for 2009-2025 Dodge RAM 1500, 2500 and 3500 trucks, and the reported 4.3/5 rating reflects a buyer group who mostly wanted the job done in a single afternoon. If your current bulbs are dim, mismatched, or half-dead, that single-box approach saves real time.It’s the middle option on this list by design. It doesn’t chase the 1200% brightness claim the SEALIGHT set makes, and it doesn’t carry the 4.8/5 owner rating of the Lights Bulb set. What it does is land squarely in the dependable middle, with the fitment years clearly stated and a package that solves the common mistake of buying only one beam.**Flaws but not dealbreakers.** The reported 4.3/5 sits between the top and bottom of this list, and a portion of owner feedback mentions output landing closer to a solid upgrade than a dramatic one. Buyers chasing maximum brightness for rural night driving should look at the SEALIGHT option first.Care about clean fitment above all? The [Lights Bulb compatible Dodge Ram 1500](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G1YDB4QR?tag=drivegearhub-20) set further down holds the highest reported rating here.⚠**Compatibility:** Canada-market trucks and some fleet builds use different harness plugs. Check the socket photo against your housing before ordering.Pros

- ✓One kit covers both high and low beam positions.
- ✓Fitment listed for 2009-2025 RAM 1500, 2500 and 3500.
- ✓Reported 4.3/5 rating from a substantial buyer base.
- ✓Straightforward afternoon install for most DIY owners.

Cons

- ✕Output lands as a solid upgrade rather than a dramatic one.
- ✕4.3/5 trails the two top-rated sets on this list.
- ✕Fleet and Canada-market plug variants need checking first.

SocketsHi/Lo pairColour Temp6500K whiteFit Years2009-2025Reported Rating4.3 / 5**Best for:** Owners replacing tired, mismatched or partially failed factory bulbs in one straightforward order.[Check current price on Amazon →](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GZV3VVBZ?tag=drivegearhub-20)

## Lights Bulb compatible Dodge Ram 1500: Best Owner-Rated Fit and Finish

#4[![Lights Bulb compatible Dodge Ram 1500](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71mxYdfRLBL._AC_UL320_.jpg)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G1YDB4QR?tag=drivegearhub-20)[Lights Bulb compatible Dodge Ram 1500](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G1YDB4QR?tag=drivegearhub-20)LightsTop owner rating 4.8/5**8.9**OUT OF 10Brightness8.6Beam Quality9.0Ease of Install8.9Owner Verdict9.3**This set earns its spot on owner feedback alone.** A reported 4.8/5 average is the highest on this list, and that’s meaningful in a category where fitment complaints dominate negative reviews. It’s built for Dodge RAM 1500, 2500 and 3500 trucks from 2009-2017 and 2018-2024, and buyers consistently describe the plug seating without fuss.Think of it as the low-drama option. You won’t find an extreme brightness claim on the listing, and that’s part of why the ratings hold up. Owners who want a clean, factory-feeling upgrade with predictable results are the ones leaving the best feedback. If you’ve ever fought a bulb that wouldn’t lock into the collar, this is the opposite of that experience.**Flaws but not dealbreakers.** The 2025 model year isn’t covered here, which is a real gap for the newest trucks. Buyers who want the absolute maximum light output should weigh the SEALIGHT set instead, since this one prioritizes fit and finish over raw brightness numbers.Driving a 2025 truck or want a wider coverage window? The [for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GMQK6YRW?tag=drivegearhub-20) set at the top of this list runs through 2025.⚠**Year Check:** This listing covers 2009-2017 and 2018-2024 trucks, so 2025 owners should look elsewhere on this list.Pros

- ✓Reported 4.8/5 rating, the highest on this list.
- ✓Owners consistently describe clean, no-fuss plug seating.
- ✓Covers RAM 1500, 2500 and 3500 across 2009-2024.
- ✓Predictable, factory-feeling output that owners rate well.

Cons

- ✕Doesn’t cover the 2025 model year.
- ✕Raw brightness trails the SEALIGHT combo.
- ✕Fewer extreme-output options for rural night driving.

Sockets9005 + H11Colour Temp6000K-6500K whiteFit Years2009-2024Reported Rating4.8 / 5**Best for:** Owners who value a clean, dependable fit and the strongest owner satisfaction score over peak output.[Check current price on Amazon →](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G1YDB4QR?tag=drivegearhub-20)

## Termitor Upgraded H11 9005 LED Bulbs: Best Waterproofing for Wet and Salty Climates

#5[![Termitor Upgraded H11 9005 LED Bulbs](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/7101im62qaL._AC_UL320_.jpg)](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H6VYMZK8?tag=drivegearhub-20)[Termitor Upgraded H11 9005 LED Bulbs](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H6VYMZK8?tag=drivegearhub-20)TermitorIP68 sealed housing**8.8**OUT OF 10Brightness9.5Beam Quality8.7Ease of Install8.9Owner Verdict8.2**This is the one to pick if you live where roads get salted, slushed and rained on for months.** Termitor builds these H11 and 9005 bulbs with an IP68 rating, which means sealed against dust ingress and tested for continuous immersion. The lifespan claim runs to 80,000+ hours, which is far beyond what most owners will ever use on a truck.The mini 1:1 sizing is the other practical win. Termitor states no adapter is required and the bulb matches the factory mounting footprint, which matters on trucks where a bulky heatsink and fan assembly fights the dust cover. The reported 4.4/5 rating suggests most buyers got a clean install without drama.**Flaws but not dealbreakers.** The 220000LM figure on the listing is a marketing peak, not a measured road output, so treat it as directional rather than literal. At reported 4.4/5, owner satisfaction lands just below the Lights Bulb set, and cool white output still won’t help you in fog.Want the widest fitment coverage instead of the wet-weather seal? The [for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GMQK6YRW?tag=drivegearhub-20) set at the top covers more model years.⚠**Specs:** The 220000LM listing figure is a combined theoretical peak, not a measured lumen output. Judge these by the IP68 seal and owner feedback, not the wattage-style headline.Pros

- ✓IP68 rating means sealed against dust and continuous immersion.
- ✓80,000+ hour lifespan claim outlasts the truck for most owners.
- ✓Mini 1:1 sizing listed as no adapter required.
- ✓Reported 4.4/5 rating with a pack of 4 included.

Cons

- ✕The 220000LM headline is a marketing peak, not road output.
- ✕4.4/5 owner satisfaction sits below the Lights Bulb set.
- ✕6500K cool white gives no advantage in fog.

Sockets9005 + H11WaterproofingIP68 ratedLifespan Claim80,000+ hoursReported Rating4.4 / 5**Best for:** Drivers in wet, salted or humid climates who want sealed housings and a long service life.[Check current price on Amazon →](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H6VYMZK8?tag=drivegearhub-20)

## Buying Guide: Socket Codes, Output, Heat and Colour Temperature

 

Before you buy anything, get the two things right that decide whether a set works: the socket code and the beam type. Everything else is preference.

 

### Which socket codes does a RAM 1500 actually use?

 

RAM trucks in this era generally run a 9005/HB3 high beam and an H11/H8/H9 low beam, and that pairing is exactly why four of the five sets here ship as combos. A 9005 bulb is a single-filament high beam and an H11 is a single-filament low beam; they are not interchangeable, no matter what a universal listing claims.

 

If you order one socket and guess at the other, you'll be doing the job twice. That's the practical argument for the [for RAM set at the top](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GMQK6YRW?tag=drivegearhub-20), which ships both positions and covers 2009-2025.

 

### How much brighter do LED swaps actually get?

 

Brightness claims in this category run wild, from a stated 1200% over halogen to a 220000LM headline figure. Treat those as marketing peaks rather than measured road output, because the honest variable is how well the chip array matches the factory filament position.

 

A "1:1" design means the LED emitters sit where the halogen filament sat, so the reflector throws light where it's meant to. Get that wrong and you lose more usable light than you gain, plus you blind oncoming traffic. Both the [SEALIGHT combo](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GWCZPH36?tag=drivegearhub-20) and the Termitor set lean on 1:1 geometry for this reason.

 

### Does colour temperature matter more than brightness?

 

For clear nights, 6500K cool white reads as crisp and modern, and that's what every set here runs. For fog, heavy rain or snow, colour temperature beats raw output: cooler light scatters back at you, while a warmer 3000K-4000K bulb cuts through.

 

If you drive in the Pacific Northwest or the Northeast through winter, weigh that honestly. None of these five sets solve fog, because they're all 6500K. The Termitor set's IP68 seal helps in wet weather, but the colour temperature is a separate issue.

 

### What about heat, fans and dust covers?

 

High-output LEDs generate heat at the base, which is why many designs use a heatsink and fan. That assembly adds length, and on RAM housings with a sealed dust cap, it may not fit without trimming the cover or leaving it off, which then exposes the bulb to moisture.

 

This is where compact sizing pays off. The [Termitor set](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H6VYMZK8?tag=drivegearhub-20) uses mini 1:1 sizing listed as no adapter required, and that's the kind of spec to look for if your truck has tight caps. One more thing worth knowing: if you ever plan to sell or trade, reversing a wiring change is far harder than swapping a bulb, so keep the factory bulbs in a box.

 

And if you're upgrading other parts of the truck at the same time, sorting your [winter tyres and cold-weather gear](https://drivegearhub.com/best-labor-day-car-deals-and-must-have-cozy-fall-fashion-finds/) before the season turns is a smarter spend than fighting it later.

 

## Who Should NOT Buy Best Led Headlight Bulbs for Ram 1500

 

LED bulb swaps are the wrong purchase for three kinds of buyers. Here's who they are, and what to look at instead.

 

### You Need to Pass a Strict State Inspection

 

Some states require that a replacement bulb meet the original equipment lighting standard, and a drop-in LED that changes the beam pattern or colour can fail. Cool white output and a shifted cutoff line are the usual reasons an inspector flags a truck.

 

Illustration: a 6500K LED in a halogen reflector housing often throws a wider, brighter pattern than the housing was designed for. If your state is strict, an OEM-spec halogen replacement is the safer spend, or you look at a full projector retrofit done properly. This is a compliance question, not a brightness one.

 

### You're Driving a 2025 Refresh or Fleet-Spec Truck

 

Not every set here covers every year. The Lights Bulb kit stops at 2024, and fleet or Canada-market trucks sometimes use different harness plugs than retail builds.

 

If you own a 2025 or a fleet truck, measure your factory socket and plug shape before ordering, then match it to a listing that explicitly states your year. Guessing based on "fits RAM 1500" is how people end up with a bulb that physically won't lock in.

 

### You Mostly Drive in Fog, Snow or Heavy Rain

 

Every set on this list is 6500K cool white, and cool white is the wrong colour temperature for fog. It reflects back at you and makes a bright wall of glare instead of cutting through.

 

If fog is your main problem, you want a warmer bulb or a dedicated fog light, not a brighter headlight. Spending more on output won't fix a colour temperature issue, and that's the honest limit of this whole category.

 

## Final Verdict

 

For most RAM owners, the [for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GMQK6YRW?tag=drivegearhub-20) set is the safest way to spend. It covers both beam positions across thewidest year range on this list, from 2009 through 2025, and it comes as one matched pair so you're not hunting down a second socket code. That combination of coverage and simplicity is why it takes the top spot.

 

Want maximum light on unlit roads instead? Get the [SEALIGHT 9005/HB3 H11/H8/H9 combo](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GWCZPH36?tag=drivegearhub-20), which makes the highest brightness claim here at 1200% over stock, as long as you're comfortable with 6500K cool white and a careful re-aim afterward.

 

Need the strongest owner satisfaction score? The [Lights Bulb compatible Dodge Ram 1500](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G1YDB4QR?tag=drivegearhub-20) holds a reported 4.8/5, the best on this page, though it stops at the 2024 model year. And if salted winter roads are your reality, the [Termitor set](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H6VYMZK8?tag=drivegearhub-20) brings an IP68 seal to the party.

 

One thing before you buy: if you drive mostly in fog, own a 2025 or fleet truck, or answer to a strict inspection, this whole category may be the wrong fit. Read the Who Should NOT Buy section above first.

 

## FAQ

 

### What's the best Led Headlight Bulbs for Ram 1500 overall?

 

The for RAM 1500/2500/3500 2009-2025 High Low set is our top pick. It ships matched 9005 high beam and H11 low beam bulbs, covers the widest year range here from 2009 to 2025, and removes the guesswork of buying two sockets separately.

 

### Will LED bulbs fit my RAM 1500 without any modifications?

 

Mostly yes, and four of the five sets here are listed as plug-and-play with no adapter required. The one thing to watch is the dust cover: if your housing uses a sealed cap and the bulb has a heatsink and fan, you may need to trim or replace the cap for clearance.

 

### Are these LED bulbs legal on the road?

 

Legality depends on your state's lighting rules and whether the beam pattern stays within the housing's designed cutoff. A 1:1 filament-matched design like the SEALIGHT or Termitor sets helps keep the pattern correct, and re-aiming both housings after install is the step most owners skip.

 

### Do LED headlight bulbs need a fan or heatsink?

 

High-output LEDs generate heat at the base, so many designs use a heatsink plus a fan to move it away. That assembly adds length and can fight a tight dust cover, which is why compact mini 1:1 sizing like the Termitor set's matters on RAM housings.

 

### How long do LED headlight bulbs last?

 

Longer than halogen, generally. Termitor claims 80,000+ hours, and SEALIGHT markets a 20-year extended lifespan claim. Real-world life depends more on heat management, moisture ingress and housing condition, so an IP68-sealed bulb tends to age better in salted or humid climates.

 

### Why do my new LED bulbs look dimmer than expected?

 

Usually it's a beam pattern problem, not an output problem. If the LED chip array doesn't sit where the halogen filament sat, the reflector throws light in the wrong place and you lose usable road coverage. Clouded or faded factory housings cause the same symptom, since an old lens scatters light before it ever leaves the truck.

 

### Do I need to re-aim my headlights after installing LEDs?

 

Yes, and it's the step that keeps you road-legal and keeps other drivers from getting blinded. Park about 25 feet from a wall on level ground, note the cutoff line height before the swap, then adjust so the new cutoff lands in the same place or slightly lower.
